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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Numbers- GD Demographics

I am more an individual liberty then group think guy, but I have always wondered about the question below. I've thought about this for a while and I have no answers.

Why are most of the folks who are involved in this scene white, middle class and up, and a majority men? Was this not always the case? If so, when did it change? If not, why?

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

great question. Wish i had some answers.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

I think that hippies by and large were of this demographic; all the reasons usually given (the opportunity, blah, blah, blah). And it stuck. What do poor white kids listen to? Something with more angst, anger or "real" revolution? Dunno...I do know that when I went to shows the majority around me were white, in college, drove a car to the show, etc; that was upper middle class for sure back then...

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Mar 6, 2012 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics


When I lived in the SFO area (1975-1983)it was a pretty good mix of boys and girls - my GD posse was an even split. Seemed like fewer college students, more just freak folk with jobs. There was limited ethnic "diversity". I knew just a very few deadheads of color, most "ethnic" folks I knew thought it was just fancy blues music, while very cool, not that big a deal - ie not a lifestyle. They were impressed that a bunch of white kids could get down like that to blues music. As far as the middle class thing goes...those were the folks(or their parents) who could afford tickets to the shows. There was always a crowd of unwashed, pissing on the sidewalks, sleeping under the trees in Berkeley dirt hippies who never actually got into a show - I don't know where they fit into this demographics study as they were always there and always white. It was obvious once you got into the Greek Theater that the dirt hippies were still outside.

Now move to the east coast (1983-1990) and things change dramatically (my first east coast Dead show was the Stephen show at MSG - a nice welcome to NYC from the Dead!). There it was frat boys and general rock and rollers, but mostly college kids and mostly guys. Big stadiums, like MSG, in freak show locations, like NYC where no mater how wierd you wanted folks to think you were - you were nothing compared the real freaks living on the streets. Again, my posse was a mix of girls and boys, but I knew many a frat boy group where no girls would want any part of the drunken drugged out chaos of college guys gone wild. I find in general that women stop the drugged out party lifestyle a few years before us guys do...if we ever do.

Now we are folks who have jobs and computer access and money to spend on the E72 box set instead of 50 concert tix a year. I don't know where the dirt hippies went, I bet most of the frat boys have families and jobs by now and were never really deadheads - just going to the big rock shows - Stones, Metalica, Motley Crew, Dead, etc. enjoying the college experience...which I did with gusto.

Deadheads are now the well adjusted people in our great society - and thats a scary thing.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Don't you think this is the demographic of fans for most rock bands? Despite what we may think, the Grateful Dead would be classified as a rock band. Which means they were on AOR radio and the demographic that listened to AOR radio would be dominated by white males. Middle class? How many people out there were like me and fell in love with this band while in college? Seems like a way to select for the middle class, no?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Going back to where the whole Dead scence began to take hold you saw this stratification already solidifying. The original "spokesmen" for the movement, folks like Jack Kerouac, Ginsberg, Kesey and Leary, were mostly all college educated white males. Not trying to be at all racist here or pigeon hole certain groups, but you would then have to look at the demographic that these folks would have reached first: college educated white males. The "movement" did spread to include females as well as all social and racial strata in higher numbers. However, as time went on, you did see these groups' numbers start to shrink. Looking at Woodstock, you saw huge amounts of women in the crowd, seemingly in equal numbers to men, and also many racial groups well represented. Fast forward to Dead shows in the 80's and it seemed to me that the ratio had radically shifted to, say, 4 to 1 males to females (this observation is purely taken from my own experience and others may have entirely different thoughts). Also, both these groups were almost all white. Now, from the shows I saw on the West Coast, the female ratio was much higher then in the East.

All in all, at least for me, it would seem that the mold for our "kind" was created early on and has changed little over the years.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 7:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

"...on the West Coast, with William Tell in attendance, the female ratio was MUCH higher..."

Stands to reason.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 6, 2012 7:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

For the female ratio to attend shows with WT they would indeed have to be MUCH higher.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 11:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Outstanding!

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 6, 2012 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Some days are better then others.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Take a look at the band.

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Poster: jerrys beard Date: Mar 6, 2012 7:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Dead on (except for the middle class part)...

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 6, 2012 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

I don't know a lot of specifics about GD members' upbringings, but I've always been under the impression that -- with the possible exception of Jerry -- most of them were at least middle class. I don't think any of them grew up in poverty.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Right; I was going to post the same thing...that's my distinct impression as well. Can't quote specifics.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Well for me if it weren't for a rich friend in college, I might never have gone. He bought at least a dozen tickets per show and just passed them out, or said, "Come on, get in the car, we're going". Then the next night, "Come on, we're going" - "Again???? Really??" In college I was on a shoestring and never would have gone to a rock concert in another city if someone wasn't paying for me.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

i recall an interview with Phil where he referred to the touring deadheads as trustfundistas.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Exactly - my friend was one of those.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Natural selection is the gradual, nonrandom process by which biological traits become either more or less common in a population as a function of differential reproduction of their bearers. It is a key mechanism of evolution.

Variation exists within all populations of organisms. This occurs partly because random mutations cause changes in the genome of an individual organism, and these mutations can be passed to offspring. Throughout the individuals’ lives, their genomes interact with their environments to cause variations in traits. (The environment of a genome includes the molecular biology in the cell, other cells, other individuals, populations, species, as well as the abiotic environment.) Individuals with certain variants of the trait may survive and reproduce more than individuals with other variants. Therefore the population evolves into
Deadheads.

**For me it was adaptation of genes. Specifically, it was Bobby's genes. When he cut them of into short-short genes, that created a certain niche. I call it the scrotal niche.
A sort of splicing of the nads. Natural selection usually
acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism. Bobbys case acted more on a peniletype, or the
observable characteristics of an organ.

Gonna stop there, I think I've said too much...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Wait a minute...this is my bailiwick...er, area of interest...duh, expertise.

Oh furgit about it.

[do be careful...don't want to go "Lamarckian" or elb and I will have a snit. (ie, avoid within generational evolution and directed mutations, environmental influences passed on to offspring except under rare circumstances, blah, blah, blah)]

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Poster: craven714 Date: Mar 6, 2012 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Not quite sure if you got the joke. The last paragraph **
should have made it clear. It makes scrotal, err, I mean
total sense.

Attachment: bob-weir-s-cutoffs.jpg

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Oh yeah--unlike SDH, I try to avoid posting about it, after a quiet, dignified chuckle to myself.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Mar 6, 2012 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

keep up the good work then

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

why do people think Steve Kimock is a great guitar player.....???

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

or Jack White for that matter.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Hey S & R: serious reply...do you think he's too limited? I have only really listened to the early WhStripes stuff, and love that...impressed the heck out of me relative to all the other stuff over the past 20 yrs, maybe more.

But, that's all I know...the kids (mine/friends) put the experience of seeing them live as above all else, sorta along the lines of how my brothers did with CREAM (it was strange being on the complete opposite side now: too young back then, too old now, ya know?).

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

I love to play the contrarian, so you should take comments like this with a grain of salt. I think he's got some talent and he's cultivated a pretty cool image for himself, but I've never been overly impressed with his actual guitar playing abilities. It seems to me that he's very good a mimicking the Jimmy Page style, but not much else. I'll admit to liking some of the White Stripes material, but it sounds very borrowed to me. I also think the absence of bass guitar makes most of their songs sound kind of hollow.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

I'm not sure that anyone thinks Jack White is a "great" guitar player...he's better than average, that's about it, his talent is in writing original material, some of which is pure horseshit...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

I don't keep up like the rest of you, but at least the kids today place him at the "top" (of others today), but I have no comparative base...those dreaded lists seem to consistently put him at some high level (which seems odd given his youth).

I was really disappointed in the groups subsequent to WhStripes; they haven't done anything for me...

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 6, 2012 6:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

If you're talking about the Raconteurs, I fully agree.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Yup; kids kept telling me to just listen...blah.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 6, 2012 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

We saw the Raconteurs and liked them.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 6, 2012 11:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Numbers- GD Demographics

Cool; I can defn see that being true--not that I am implying they are a "DEAD-esque, gotta see em live" thing.

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